Author Topic: Tali in the new DLC (some spoilers)  (Read 14750 times)

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March 11, 2013, 04:01:38 AM
Reply #50

Offline Mental Surge

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Well, with that one sentence, you have officially invalidated anything you ever have and ever will say on account of mind-numbing stupidity.  Good day, sir.
lol coming from the guy who thinks a human with cybernetics walking into a beam and making everything in the galaxy green and glowy is good writing? Id say you have no right to call anyone else stupid lol. Hey look, I did the green ending and now my toaster is alive! Bacteria can now listen to MP3 players and plants have built in televisions! All because someone walked into a beam. Cause why not? Yeah, thats good writing. LMAO. Theres a reason people like you are in the minority lol. Im glad for that.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 04:05:07 AM by Mental Surge »

March 11, 2013, 04:08:06 AM
Reply #51

Offline Mental Surge

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Come to think of it. Would that even be an opinion? To say it well written? Thats a statement is it not? AN opinion would be that you simply LIKE the ending. Saying its well written isnt really an opinion its just a statement.... and a false one at that, so yes, I can say you are wrong.

March 11, 2013, 04:26:41 AM
Reply #52

Offline obsolete

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Come to think of it. Would that even be an opinion? To say it well written? Thats a statement is it not? AN opinion would be that you simply LIKE the ending. Saying its well written isnt really an opinion its just a statement.... and a false one at that, so yes, I can say you are wrong.
"Good" and "well" are relative terms, with meanings varying person by person, therefore it IS an opinion, therefore you cannot say I am wrong without attempting to attach "right" and "wrong" to an OPINION, which is utterly pointless.

March 11, 2013, 04:39:17 AM
Reply #53

Offline Mental Surge

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"Good" and "well" are relative terms, with meanings varying person by person, therefore it IS an opinion, therefore you cannot say I am wrong without attempting to attach "right" and "wrong" to an OPINION, which is utterly pointless.
not sure i agree with that. But to the point, you like the green ending so anything you say is kinda rendered obsolete...... see wat i did thar
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 04:47:16 AM by Mental Surge »

March 11, 2013, 07:36:15 AM
Reply #54

Offline SenHai

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People are arguing about Three bad Endings? And which is the least Bad?

From What I have read on the DLC, it seems to be a last shot at pleasing the Fans with an Immersion breaking, plot breaking non-sensical comedic sub-plot.

March 11, 2013, 12:10:49 PM
Reply #55

Offline mikethor007

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People are arguing about Three bad Endings? And which is the least Bad?

From What I have read on the DLC, it seems to be a last shot at pleasing the Fans with an Immersion breaking, plot breaking non-sensical comedic sub-plot.
You forgot cringe-worthy.
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March 11, 2013, 03:38:00 PM
Reply #56

Offline Rear Admiral Kikaimegami

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For the love of god, you guys, stay on topic! Also, that's probably enough of the personal insults.

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March 11, 2013, 03:44:16 PM
Reply #57

Offline Mental Surge

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People are arguing about Three bad Endings? And which is the least Bad?

From What I have read on the DLC, it seems to be a last shot at pleasing the Fans with an Immersion breaking, plot breaking non-sensical comedic sub-plot.
you can not like it but theres nothing plot breaking about it. yet another person bashing it who hasnt played it.

March 11, 2013, 08:15:35 PM
Reply #58

Offline Formis_Sage

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you can not like it but theres nothing plot breaking about it. yet another person bashing it who hasnt played it.
It isn't downright plot-breaking, simply atmosphere-breaking.
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March 11, 2013, 09:58:43 PM
Reply #59

Offline obsolete

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It isn't downright plot-breaking, simply atmosphere-breaking.

And character-breaking.

March 11, 2013, 10:22:09 PM
Reply #60

Offline Formis_Sage

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And character-breaking.
In a way yes, and no.
Fluttershy is always adorable, no exception. :3

March 12, 2013, 01:18:54 AM
Reply #61

Offline Mental Surge

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March 12, 2013, 03:20:47 AM
Reply #62

Offline Octo

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Yeah, synthesis really is the absolute epitome of where ME's story went wrong. I mean, ME 1 at least tried to uphold an atmosphere of realism (or at least as much as a space opera setting allows for), in fact that was one of its big selling points everybody talked about. By ME 2 that kinda fell on the wayside to have more action. But synthesis really completely tosses this out of the window for pure, unadulterated space magic. *Poof*, and every living being in the galaxy changes just so? By being hit by a beam of light? Which is powered by Shepard's life energy or something? Do the authors have any concept at all how complex organic bodies are, and how complex cybernetics? And yet the change happens instantly by a beam of light. Which apparently knows any and all biological details necessary of every and each species it hits, too... Pure magic. Fantasy, not sci-fi. Really, a complete reverse of the attitude ME 1 was going for.

But to return to the thread topic:
I'm not going into a repetition of my arguments yet another time, MS, but coming to think of it, you're right in one point:

If [...] you dont want to support them being more character focused

Yeah. I don't. Bioware's character writing is still great, but that just means that this is an area they don't need to work on. It's good as it is. In fact, ever since ME 2 and DA 2, there is too much focus on characters, and that greatly hurts story writing and the supposed RPG nature of the games.  If a game has merely sufficient instead of great characters, I'm okay with that, as long as story and gameplay are great and I can make actual decisions and can make up the personality and attitude of the main character. Especially the latter is what went wrong with ME 3, and is continued throughout the DLC, too. All those great scenes and character interaction mean absolutely nothing to me, if I can't actually play them and only watch as my Shepard talks on his/her own. I mean, if I just want to see a movie with great characters, I'll go to the cinema. What I want is to be able to make up my character's personality and attitudes by actually getting to choose what he/she says! And, in the wider game, to actually make decisions in the story! That is what Bioware needs to work on again, and that is what they should focus on again!

And as long as they don't do that, I'm not touching anything from them again. That issue is my main beef with ME 3.
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March 12, 2013, 04:04:21 AM
Reply #63

Offline obsolete

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no it isnt.
Shepard spends the first 2/3 of the trilogy trying to convince people that the Reapers are out there, that they are a threat, and nobody listens!  They ignore the problem at hand, and Shepard is not a huge fan of this.  Now that the Reapers are here, Shepard...ignores the problem at hand and relaxes at his apartment?  What?  That is so amazingly out of character I actually cringed after simply hearing the concept for this DLC.

March 12, 2013, 04:45:39 AM
Reply #64

Offline Mental Surge

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Yeah, synthesis really is the absolute epitome of where ME's story went wrong. I mean, ME 1 at least tried to uphold an atmosphere of realism (or at least as much as a space opera setting allows for), in fact that was one of its big selling points everybody talked about. By ME 2 that kinda fell on the wayside to have more action. But synthesis really completely tosses this out of the window for pure, unadulterated space magic. *Poof*, and every living being in the galaxy changes just so? By being hit by a beam of light? Which is powered by Shepard's life energy or something? Do the authors have any concept at all how complex organic bodies are, and how complex cybernetics? And yet the change happens instantly by a beam of light. Which apparently knows any and all biological details necessary of every and each species it hits, too... Pure magic. Fantasy, not sci-fi. Really, a complete reverse of the attitude ME 1 was going for.

But to return to the thread topic:
I'm not going into a repetition of my arguments yet another time, MS, but coming to think of it, you're right in one point:

Yeah. I don't. Bioware's character writing is still great, but that just means that this is an area they don't need to work on. It's good as it is. In fact, ever since ME 2 and DA 2, there is too much focus on characters, and that greatly hurts story writing and the supposed RPG nature of the games.  If a game has merely sufficient instead of great characters, I'm okay with that, as long as story and gameplay are great and I can make actual decisions and can make up the personality and attitude of the main character. Especially the latter is what went wrong with ME 3, and is continued throughout the DLC, too. All those great scenes and character interaction mean absolutely nothing to me, if I can't actually play them and only watch as my Shepard talks on his/her own. I mean, if I just want to see a movie with great characters, I'll go to the cinema. What I want is to be able to make up my character's personality and attitudes by actually getting to choose what he/she says! And, in the wider game, to actually make decisions in the story! That is what Bioware needs to work on again, and that is what they should focus on again!

And as long as they don't do that, I'm not touching anything from them again. That issue is my main beef with ME 3.
i am the complete opposite there. The characters are what I love about the franchise. The story is second then the gameplay.  Also, I dont think convincing Bioware to make shit mroe character focused would actually detract from everything else as much as you are saying.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 04:50:04 AM by Mental Surge »

March 12, 2013, 04:48:50 AM
Reply #65

Offline Mental Surge

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Shepard spends the first 2/3 of the trilogy trying to convince people that the Reapers are out there, that they are a threat, and nobody listens!  They ignore the problem at hand, and Shepard is not a huge fan of this.  Now that the Reapers are here, Shepard...ignores the problem at hand and relaxes at his apartment?  What?  That is so amazingly out of character I actually cringed after simply hearing the concept for this DLC.
the whole point was that hes suppose to `loosen up` before the final mission. Its like saying the loyalty missions in ME2 were pointless. No, they were to get everyone focused on the mission and be in top performance. Its the same thing here. Considering all that shepard has gone through (you know, saving the galaxy, dying, killing hundreds of thousands of batarians, ect) this actually makes sense. Now if he was going on a like a week long vacation or something then ya, id agree. Oh wait, you didnt play the dlc.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 04:50:52 AM by Mental Surge »

March 12, 2013, 04:51:07 AM
Reply #66

Offline Octo

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I think you slightly misunderstand me, if indeed only slightly. I'd put the story second, too. What I'd put first, what I find important is, well, decisions and character personalization. I want to determine what my character is like, which mostly happens through dialogue choices, actually being able to choose what he/she says, choosing his/her attitude and so on. And I want to make decisions in the story as well. That is what is important to me first and foremost. Then comes the story. Then the characters. Or maybe even gameplay before that...

Its like saying the loyalty missions in ME2 were pointless.
Well, yes.
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March 12, 2013, 04:52:47 AM
Reply #67

Offline Mental Surge

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I think you slightly misunderstand me, if indeed only slightly. I'd put the story second, too. What I'd put first, what I find important is, well, decisions and character personalization. I want to determine what my character is like, which mostly happens through dialogue choices, actually being able to choose what he/she says, choosing his/her attitude and so on. And I want to make decisions in the story as well. That is what is important to me first and foremost. Then comes the story. Then the characters. Or maybe even gameplay before that...
I dont think making the game more character focused would really detract from that. It seems like personalization is something that would almost benefit from more focus on characterization.

March 12, 2013, 04:53:20 AM
Reply #68

Offline Mental Surge

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Well, yes.
well if thats the case then shepard was also out of character then too.


edit: according to obsolete

March 12, 2013, 05:01:48 AM
Reply #69

Offline Octo

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I dont think making the game more character focused would really detract from that. It seems like personalization is something that would almost benefit from more focus on characterization.
Yeah, it wouldn't necessarily detract from that. But as it so happens, ME 3 throw all Shepard personalization by the player onto the garbage heap, and this DLC, too, kept it there.

well if thats the case then shepard was also out of character then too.
Well, yes ;)
(that is, ME 2 already railroaded Shepard extensively, after all. The whole thing about how the game makes Shepard join up with Cerberus no matter what, before he/she even knows about the Council's inactivity and all that. So one could theoretically say compared to ME 1 he/she already out of character in ME 2... though, okay, I'm being somewhat facetious here, heh. )
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March 12, 2013, 05:05:55 AM
Reply #70

Offline Mental Surge

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Yeah, it wouldn't necessarily detract from that. But as it so happens, ME 3 throw all Shepard personalization by the player onto the garbage heap, and this DLC, too, kept it there.
Well, yes ;)
(that is, ME 2 already railroaded Shepard extensively, after all. The whole thing about how the game makes Shepard join up with Cerberus no matter what, before he/she even knows about the Council's inactivity and all that. So one could theoretically say compared to ME 1 he/she already out of character in ME 2... though, okay, I'm being somewhat facetious here, heh. )
Well ya I hated that too in regards to the auto dialogue and non player based personality that shepard got. But I dont think it hurts to make the series more character based. Ya thats something they could improve on but ALSO improve the focus on characters. As for the ME2 thing, ya I agree the plot was dumb and the shepard personality railroading thing was dumb too. Im just explaining why Obsoletes argument about shepard doing the same thing in ME3 isnt really out of character.

March 12, 2013, 05:13:19 AM
Reply #71

Offline Octo

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Okay then, let's find some consensus at last then: The DLC might be good, maybe, and the characters well written, but since it doesn't fix the choices and personalization issue it does nothing for me, to me it's hence so to speak just a collection of cinematics and I don't want to watch, I want to play. Fornis has said he'd only buy a DLC that does something about the endings, well, I'd only approve of a DLC that does something about the issue of personalization and choices. (and hell, if somehow by miracle a DLC would fix that issue all over ME 3, I'd even buy the game :p )
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March 12, 2013, 05:14:36 AM
Reply #72

Offline Mental Surge

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Id rather buy a dlc that retcons all of ME3

March 12, 2013, 05:14:56 AM
Reply #73

Offline Mental Surge

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but that wont happen

March 12, 2013, 05:30:06 AM
Reply #74

Offline Octo

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Hm, one thing while we're at it:
Well ya I hated that too in regards to the auto dialogue and non player based personality that shepard got. But I dont think it hurts to make the series more character based.
Thing is... well, take the romances. Like the Tali romance. Why still find it important? Why does it still matter if it isn't really Shepard on the other side of the romance, so to speak? That's my problem, even with all the cutscenes people say were so well-written... doesn't matter to me if there's no player input. It isn't a Tali/Shepard romance if it isn't Shepard.
The First Human Spectre

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