Author Topic: Female Characters That You Like in Games, Other Than Tali  (Read 2109 times)

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February 13, 2014, 10:36:20 AM

Offline Seven

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Given the nature of this site, I know that this thread may seem heretical, but bare with me for a moment.

I've been doing another playthrough of DA:O (the first in many years) and I was immediately reminded why I liked Morrigan so much. And this led me to think about why it was that I actually liked her. Well, one reason was that she had no competition  at the time, both in-game and with regards to games in general (remember, DA:O was released just before ME 2 was, so having Tali as a LI was still a hope rather than a reality). Also, she shares some characteristics with Tali.

Think about it, both had lonely upbringings under a powerful authority figure, who wished the best for them, but never "loved" them in the traditional sense. As a result of this, both are tad bit socially awkward (although Morrigan manifests this is a very different way). Beyond this, both are extremely intelligent, and hyper-competent at their respective specialization (magic or engineering).

Let me continue by investigating what it is that appeals to me about each character that is not mutual to the other. On Tali's side, it's pretty obvious; her unwavering loyalty, utter selflessness, and the fact that she is able to rise above the petty (as is so nicely demonstrated by her meeting with that Turian on the Citadel) are all extremely endearing traits. As is the fact that she is completely trustworthy (this is an important fact that I will visit later).

Moving on to Morrigan, her sharp wit and sense of mystery (even more so than Tali) are what win people over. Arguably, she is a more interesting character than Tali and always remains a bit of an enigma, even if you exhaust every single dialog option. That latter point, however, is what really separates her from Tali. As I stated earlier, Tali is entirely trustworthy; she makes all her motives known to Shepard, and they trust each other with their lives.

Not so with Morrigan. Her relationship with the Grey Warden seems incredibly complex in comparison. While she seems come to harbor feelings of affection towards him, this is muddied by unknown motives (in particular, the Dark Ritual). As a result of this, I don't think that they come to fully trust each other.

Another thing that separates the two is their outlook on life.Tali is far more of an idealist than Morrigan, and as a result, she is far more inclined to point Shepard in the right direction, while Morrigan has a strong disliking for acts of charity, which often puts my Grey Warden at odds with her. Although, at the time, one might have worked under the assumption that one could change her perspective (a fool's notion, since both characters are extremely strong willed).

A final separating characteristic is how easy it is to get along with each of these characters. To get along with Tali is incredibly straightforward: be kind to her, do what you can to help her and her people, and don't violate the trust that she has with you (i.e. don't give the evidence at her trial). In comparison, interacting with Morrigan is anything but straightforward. Every conversation is like walking through a minefield; since she tends to hold such extreme views, saying something that she does not agree with results in a harsh penalty to her relationship with you.

As a result of this, while I find Morrigan a more interesting character, her unpredictability and darker nature, mean that I am often unsure of how to interact with her. Combine this with the lack of complete trust, and I am reluctant to (speaking in universe) dedicate myself entirely towards her. Something that my Shepard is certainly willing to do with Tali.

PS: Playing through DA:O again reminded me of just how much more engaging the character interaction is in that game. That's not to say that I don't like it in ME, but simply choosing one of two options and hearing the appropriate response is not at all compelling in comparison to weighing up all the options in DA:O and selecting the one which you think leads to the best outcome. It feels a lot more natural, and means that you feel far more invested in conversations. That, and your conversations/interactions with the world directly having an effect on how a character perceives you makes choices feel much more important. I really hope that ME:Next abandons that stupid dialog wheel, and instead goes this route.

Edit: Restructured the title, so that it is less ambiguous.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 10:49:52 AM by Seven »
Tali: I thought I'd lost you.
Shepard: You were worried?
Tali: You bet I was! You dying because the geth overrode my hack? Think of my reputation!
Shepard: You were worried.

February 13, 2014, 12:32:04 PM
Reply #1

Offline D. Trump

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Sadly, I've never played DA:O much, in fact, barely started a new game. Somehow it doesn't look bad, but not appealing either.

Besides that, it's hard to think of a game where the romance has the impact of ME. Speaking of witch, correct me if I'm wrong, but the concept of a truly optional, choice-driven romance wasn't around until the sixth generation of home consoles (PS2, Xbox "zero", Dreamcast and Gamecube. Computers don't have a "generation", but the timeline is basically the same) so the whole idea is still in development. These factors pretty much add up for a yet-unchallenged ME (ME2, to be precise). All this may sound very fanboy, but really in my experience there's almost always someone charming in any game, but it's the only romance available, plot-based of course, or not romance-able at all. So right now no one comes to mind.

Now allow me to be annoying: you say that there's some relation between Tali and Morrigan. As stated above, I have no knowledge of this character and my assumptions are based on what you wrote. But the fact that it's defining to me is the way conversations flow. We are all used to Tali, you can't choose the "wrong" answer. But if with Morrigan every step you take is uncertain, it looks like they're very different.
One of the aspects that makes Tali so easy to love it's that you can talk in the same language to her. Maybe quarians are less "feminine" in a way, but the thing is, you say "Yes" and she hear "Yes". From what I understand, Moriigan is way more human, and if you say "Yes" she may understand a "Maybe". This, as seen in real life, is the receipt for disaster.

don't violate the trust that she has with you (i.e. don't give the evidence at her trial)

Cannot be stressed enough.
"You worry too much." - John Shepard

February 13, 2014, 12:49:12 PM
Reply #2

Offline Seven

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I think that's more a result of how the conversation system is designed in the respective games. After all, all the characters are like that in DA:O; you just have to be especially careful with Morrigan. Even given ME's dialog system, there are still comments that Shepard can make that Tali does not appreciate, however, the game does not penalize you making them.
Tali: I thought I'd lost you.
Shepard: You were worried?
Tali: You bet I was! You dying because the geth overrode my hack? Think of my reputation!
Shepard: You were worried.

February 13, 2014, 01:02:38 PM
Reply #3

Offline D. Trump

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The conversations are more like Deus Ex, where you say exactly what the option described (This game too is in my to-do list and my brother still wants to kill me for not playing it)?
"You worry too much." - John Shepard

February 13, 2014, 01:10:07 PM
Reply #4

Offline Seven

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Have you played KoTOR? It's exactly like that; the protagonist is unvoiced, so the entire line is written out.

Also, Morrigan doesn't misinterpret the things that you say. Just like Tali, she has very strong opinions about some things. Contradicting those opinions makes her dislike you.
Tali: I thought I'd lost you.
Shepard: You were worried?
Tali: You bet I was! You dying because the geth overrode my hack? Think of my reputation!
Shepard: You were worried.

February 13, 2014, 01:14:32 PM
Reply #5

Offline D. Trump

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I get it. Do you happen to have others romances in mind? I'm having a hard time trying to remember any.
"You worry too much." - John Shepard

February 13, 2014, 01:19:30 PM
Reply #6

Offline Seven

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Maybe Triss Merigold from The Witcher 2. Most games do romance absolutely terribly. Even KoTOR was a bit awkward.
Tali: I thought I'd lost you.
Shepard: You were worried?
Tali: You bet I was! You dying because the geth overrode my hack? Think of my reputation!
Shepard: You were worried.

February 13, 2014, 01:27:43 PM
Reply #7

Offline D. Trump

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Most games do romance absolutely terribly.
:D

Honestly, you may rightfully want to stone me to death, but i didn't play these two games because of the combat system. Also D&D 3rd edition on KoTOR's case (Witcher 2 used the Human Revolution engine, quite strange). Triss is that girl in the tent right before the siege, right?
"You worry too much." - John Shepard

February 13, 2014, 01:33:01 PM
Reply #8

Offline Seven

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No, TW2 uses REDengine. Yes, that is Triss.

And TW2 has amazing gameplay.
Tali: I thought I'd lost you.
Shepard: You were worried?
Tali: You bet I was! You dying because the geth overrode my hack? Think of my reputation!
Shepard: You were worried.

February 13, 2014, 01:45:23 PM
Reply #9

Offline D. Trump

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That's what happens when talking about stuff you don't know. Back to topic.  :P

Can you put a link to a video/script-FAQ for some conversation with Morrigan, to better illustrate your point?
"You worry too much." - John Shepard

February 13, 2014, 01:48:42 PM
Reply #10

Offline Seven

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You can see when I write a reply on a phone. It reads like a telegram.

Frankly, The Witcher 2 blows pretty much any other fantasy RPG out of the water. Its storyline, environments, aesthetics, and the choices that you are forced to make are in a completely different class. Even its combat system is quite engaging. Pretty much the only RPG that can come close is Dragon Age: Origins, and only because of its EXTREMELY strong characters. Triss may have personality, but she is no Morrigan (despite them both being powerful mages).
Tali: I thought I'd lost you.
Shepard: You were worried?
Tali: You bet I was! You dying because the geth overrode my hack? Think of my reputation!
Shepard: You were worried.

February 13, 2014, 02:00:44 PM
Reply #11

Offline Seven

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Okay, here are some extracts:

Dragon Age: Morrigan talks about shapeshifting with Dalish PC

Sten and Morrigan Party Banter - Dragon Age: Origins

Dragon Age Origins - Morrigan Vs Alistair


Although such short clips, taken out of context do not really do her justice.
Tali: I thought I'd lost you.
Shepard: You were worried?
Tali: You bet I was! You dying because the geth overrode my hack? Think of my reputation!
Shepard: You were worried.

February 13, 2014, 02:03:42 PM
Reply #12

Offline D. Trump

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The smartphone brought back the telegram. That's ironic.

Well, I don't hate The Witcher 2, my problem with it was that, the first time picking up the game, Geralt's foot somehow got stuck in something when trying to speak to a group of soldiers, and he burned to death in a campfire. Starting over, I got to the first true battle of the game (next to the Assassin's Creed easter egg) and didn't dig the idea of a two-handed sword and a even bigger two-handed sword when the enemies had faster weapons and attacked in numbers.

But I take your word for it, as my time with the game was ridiculously short.
"You worry too much." - John Shepard

February 13, 2014, 02:19:11 PM
Reply #13

Offline Seven

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I played it through twice. And what do you think of the clips that I posted?

Here's a particularly poignant one (note, his game has been modded, as this scene is not normally available in game):
Dragon Age-Morriganīs angry kiss
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 03:52:31 PM by Seven »
Tali: I thought I'd lost you.
Shepard: You were worried?
Tali: You bet I was! You dying because the geth overrode my hack? Think of my reputation!
Shepard: You were worried.

February 14, 2014, 01:24:37 AM
Reply #14

Offline D. Trump

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Ok, so here is what I learned. Again, forgive any BS possibly found below.

Morrigan is a far interesting character. The sum of her unique nature, the voice and why not, the looks are more than enough for her to be attractive. The similarity with Tali seems to reside in her insecure behavior, as if not really being part of the world she inhabits, which is not fully untrue, given the exotic culture from where she must've came from.

In that last video, the mod is everything from the slapping to the end?

Also that dialogue system is way better than the stupid wheel.
"You worry too much." - John Shepard

February 14, 2014, 07:50:30 AM
Reply #15

Offline Seven

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"Exotic culture". Ah, she grew up in a small hut, in the middle of the wilderness, with her "mother",  Flemeth. I suppose that you can consider that exotic; it's certainly unusual.

As far as I know, that whole scene was restored by the mod, and the female player character is the result of another mod (Morrigan is straight).

« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 07:57:00 AM by Seven »
Tali: I thought I'd lost you.
Shepard: You were worried?
Tali: You bet I was! You dying because the geth overrode my hack? Think of my reputation!
Shepard: You were worried.

February 14, 2014, 01:09:54 PM
Reply #16

Offline D. Trump

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Looks like she has some kind of a strong presence, as if she is not just there, she is standing there. Had she been raised on a more civilized place, maybe she would be a very different person. But that powerful look would still be present.

That scene is possible for a male character, or been removed from the final game altogether? 
"You worry too much." - John Shepard

February 14, 2014, 04:04:20 PM
Reply #17

Offline Seven

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Yeah, she has an extremely dominating personality, which is one the things that differentiates her from Tali. I can't help but think that she would have made a very good monarch.

Just like Tali, Morrigan is only romanceable by male player characters.
Tali: I thought I'd lost you.
Shepard: You were worried?
Tali: You bet I was! You dying because the geth overrode my hack? Think of my reputation!
Shepard: You were worried.